Below are the highlights I took away from the interview.
So what is the solution to this? How will the European debt crisis be resolved?
What is happening in Europe now is essentially the same, almost totally analogous, to what happened in the U.S. in 1789. It is an interesting comparison.
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Post-American Revolution?
Yes. In 1776, the colonies declared independence from Great Britain. We didn't have a country. We had independent states that had a treaty with each other, called the Articles of Confederation, and it was similar to the Maastricht Treaty that created the European Union and the euro currency. The independent states had debt problems and they had tariffs with each other. It wasn't until 13 years later, 1789, that those states started to form a central government, largely because of their debt problems. There was a constitutional convention, and we formed a country and we chose a president. We formed a treasury and imposed central taxation. That gave us the ability to produce revenue for the country and restructure our debts. There was the ability to have taxation and to issue bonds and to borrow. Europe does not have an ability to borrow. It doesn't have central taxation, that's material, and it doesn't have a treasury. It is a collection of countries operating for their own individual needs.
Europe is approaching a decision point. It will have to decide whether it wants to create a sufficient central government that has more than a treaty, that has the ability to collect taxes from the whole and the ability to issue debt that obligates the whole, or whether it does not. That is the crux of this issue. The question is how much pain is it going to cause in Europe, and does the pain cause a collapse before it causes the choices? When a debtor can't print money and depreciate its currency, it will go into a self-reinforcing terrible economic situation. The deleveraging in Spain is just beginning, and they already have nearly 25% unemployment. They need relief.
And so?
So the main picture I'm trying to create is there could be a shock. I would say that there is maybe a 30% chance in the next six-month to two-year period of a really bad shock from Europe. And that shock is made worse because there is no clarity of who has got authority or control. When you have a centralized government and you have the ability to enforce laws, you can resolve problems. There might be a lot of arguments, but ultimately decisions can be made.
There are no provisions in the Maastricht Treaty for the breakup of the monetary union. There are no rules, there are no means. If a country is exiting the monetary union and then says I'm going to pay off the debt in my local currency, how does that work? The Maastricht Treaty doesn't have any provision for any country leaving the monetary union. It doesn't say if this happens, then that happens. There is a question of enforceability.
Every society has to have the ability to enforce laws. How does Germany actually force Italy to pay? It isn't clear. Supposing Spain decides they want to exit the union. The unemployment rate is terrible. That's a very scary thought. Maybe they say, "We're going to pay you back in Spanish pesetas even though the contract is for euros." That's the history, by the way: Argentina and Brazil and Mexico did that.
Yes, but local currencies no longer exist.
That's the whole other complication. There are good incentives not to take that course, and yet there are also big problems if you don't take it. In any event, there isn't a good decision-making process. There isn't a single means of achieving resolution in Europe, and that's the big problem here.
Again, how do you see world markets behaving as a result?
At the moment, there is a tipping toward slowing growth and a question of whether there will be a negative European shock, and that will favor low-risk assets. But to whatever extent we have negative conditions, central banks will respond by printing more money. There will be a big spurt of printing of money, and that will cause a rally and an improvement in the stock markets around the world. It's like a shot of adrenaline: The heart starts pumping again and then it fades. Then there is another shot of adrenaline.
Everybody is asking, "Are we going to have a bull market or a bear market?" I expect we will have both with no big trend. Typically, in these up and down cycles, the upswing will last about twice as long as a down swing. We are now in the higher range of the up-cycle.
What's your outlook for the U.S.?
The economy will be slowing into the end of the year, and then it will become more risky in 2013. Then, in 2013, we have the so-called fiscal cliff and the prospect of significantly higher taxes, as well as worsening conditions in Europe to contend with. This is coming immediately after the U.S. presidential election, which makes it more difficult. This can be successfully dealt with, but it won't necessarily be successfully dealt with. We have the equipment and the policy makers, and as long as policy is well managed, we'll be okay.
Are you still a fan of gold?
Longer term, yes. It could temporarily be a bumpy ride because Europeans will have to sell gold in order to raise funds because they are squeezed. Most people should have in the vicinity of 10% of their assets in gold, not only because I think it will be a good investment longer term, but because I think it is a very effective diversifier against the other 90%.
It's amazing to think that four years into it, the world is still deleveraging.
Deleveragings go on for about 15 years. The process of raising debt relative to incomes goes on for 30 or 40 years, typically. There's a last big surge, which we had in the two years from 2005 to 2007 and from 1927 to 1929, and in Japan from 1988 to 1990, when the pace becomes manic. That's the classic bubble.
And then it takes about 15 years to adjust.
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